Edurance training for shorter events

[Gabe Rinaldi]

I was reading some information on the concept2 rowing forums (specifically the posts about the Wolverine training plan). It seems many elite rowers training for a 2k competition (around 6 min.) spend the majority of their training time rowing in excess of 40 min. Several days they do 60-80 min. of continuous rowing. These are people who hold world records and have been training for decades.

Any thoughts on why this works in the practical world? If you had a 1.5 mile running time of 7 min. and you wanted to get faster, then would you spend most of your days running 40-80 min.?

[John Seaburg]

Doesn't make sense to me. I would think short intervals and some 500m, 1000, 1500 rows mixed in would be the way to go. Also, squats, deads and pull ups might help.

[Scott Kolasinski]

Any mention of other rowers using more interval-like training and not succeeding?

Or is this a case of nobody knowing if more sprints and strength work would benefit so nobody has tried dedicating themselves to such a program?

[Tracey Downing]

Don't know if the wolverine training is related to UM or not, but having rowed at Michigan, I would say that it's more a case of doing a little of everything and not focusing on what's having the greatest impact nor time efficiency. Throughout the winter months, we frequently rowed 50+ minutes steady state with a few intense bouts thrown in. However, we also had shorter interval days, ran stadiums and were encouraged to lift although no guidance was provided to that end. I think it's much like many other sports steeped in tradition, it takes a well educated coach with guts to break out of the mold of what's been done for years before.

[Gabe Rinaldi]

http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2692&hl=wolverine

Check out that link. I spent about 30 minutes reading info in that link before I posted my first question, but it is 46 pages long. It is definitely not a case of them not being educated on what most people would do to train for a 2k. In fact the coach used to do what most of us would probably do when training a rower for a 2k. Tracey, it is in fact the UM team; although I think the guy (Mike Caviston) is no longer with the school. The coach, Mike Caviston set a world record at age 45. I do not know what style training many other record holders do; however, I've heard that some other top countries for rowing use a similar style. It seems counterproductive, but worth examining or at least hearing them out.

[Ben White]

it could be that max strength and power workout are done in the weight room and the rowing sessions are for strength endurance and the "third wave" adaptations.

"third wave adaptations are largely specific to the training modality, and have nothing to do with aerobic conditioning but endurance performance." (crossfit journal june 2003)

the artical also says that too much interval training inhibits "third wave" adaptation.


ben

[Gabe Rinaldi]

it could be that max strength and power workout are done in the weight room and the rowing sessions are for strength endurance and the "third wave" adaptations.

"third wave adaptations are largely specific to the training modality, and have nothing to do with aerobic conditioning but endurance performance." (crossfit journal june 2003)

the artical also says that too much interval training inhibits "third wave" adaptation.


ben

Ben, I would agree with you that these rowers are doing most of their training at these long durations for the third wave adaptations. Third wave adaptations are basically about developing efficiency; i.e., refining the rowing stride to make it more efficient.

First wave adaptations refer to improvements in oxygen consumption and second wave adaptations refer to increased lactate threshold.

"Second and third wave adaptations are highly specific to the activity in which they are developed and are detrimental to the broad fitness that we advocate and develop." (CrossFit journal Oct. 2002)

There are elite rowers who do not follow this ultra high volume of training. Also, the point that interval training does not induce 3rd wave adaptations is the very reason why CrossFit does so many intervals.

So, in my opinion, an elite rower (or other athlete who competes in events lasting around 6 min.) who also competes in other sports or cares about optimal health and fitness should not emphasize such a high volume of training that focuses mainly on 3rd wave adaptations.

It is interesting to see people at the highest level of rowing focusing mainly on 3rd wave adaptations. Once your V02 max and lactate threshold are optimized, then what else do you have to improve but efficiency?

[Michael Gordon]

Hi Gabe,

I've been wondering the same question (why so much LSD training for rowers) and have found the Concept2 UK website to have lots of interesting information. I also found an interesting page (physiologist Stephen Seiler who is also a rower) discussing interval training: http://home.hia.no/~stephens/interval.htm.

Seiler explains that while interval training is excellent for improving VO2 max, "The most powerful stimulus for change in skeletal muscle aerobic capacity is different from the most powerful stmulus for cardiac functional changes! Hard but short interval training fails here. We MUST put in the hours of continuous constant intensity exercise to maximize these adaptations! This will range from steady state efforts at 65-75% of VO2max lasting 45 to 120 minutes to repeated "Anaerobic Threshold work" at 80-90% of VO2 max for 15 to 30 minutes."

Cheers,

Michael

[Gabe Rinaldi]

Hi Gabe,

I've been wondering the same question (why so much LSD training for rowers) and have found the Concept2 UK website to have lots of interesting information. I also found an interesting page (physiologist Stephen Seiler who is also a rower) discussing interval training: http://home.hia.no/~stephens/interval.htm.

Seiler explains that while interval training is excellent for improving VO2 max, "The most powerful stimulus for change in skeletal muscle aerobic capacity is different from the most powerful stmulus for cardiac functional changes! Hard but short interval training fails here. We MUST put in the hours of continuous constant intensity exercise to maximize these adaptations! This will range from steady state efforts at 65-75% of VO2max lasting 45 to 120 minutes to repeated "Anaerobic Threshold work" at 80-90% of VO2 max for 15 to 30 minutes."

Cheers,

Michael

Thanks for the link Michael. I read all his stuff and most of it makes sense to me. The questions one might ask now are:

If you wanted to optimize the ten fitness qualities (speed, power, agility, coordination, balance, endurance, stamina, strength, accuracy, and flexibility), then what percentage of time should be spent not doing intervals or high intensity work?

If you are an endurance athlete (cyclist, runner, triathlete, rower, etc.) and you are training in the gym maybe 2 to 3 hours per week, then what is the optimal way to train with weights?